Food as Pharmacy with Kamal Singh, Cofounder & COO of Halitra

HEIDI: Kamal, thank you so much for coming on Founders Fridge.

KAMAL: Thank you for having me.

HEIDI: Awesome. So we'll dive right into it. Could you just tell me a little bit about what you're building?

KAMAL: Sure. So Halitra, we're a data company. We provide building energy insights to financial institutions, which enable those lenders to include those building energy insights into their property loans.

HEIDI: Awesome. When did you start building this?

KAMAL: We started Halitra in 2022. We originally started off as a hardware company. And then we learned quickly that building hardware as non-hardware people is a really, really dumb idea. So then we pivoted to becoming a hundred percent software and we discovered various sources of data. And then we figured, you know what, this software thing, this data as a service model is kind of more attractive than building hardware and manufacturing it. And yeah, so we, you know, as a startup, you constantly pivot. You never stop pivoting and recalibrating. So the hardware to the software was a massive pivot and we're just recalibrating as we go.

HEIDI: So the hardware piece—did it tie into this business model or was it totally different?

KAMAL: So the hardware, originally we were like, hey, how do we bridge the gap that is preventing financial institutions from profitably decarbonizing the built environment and also teeing it up for contractors and energy auditors and assessors and engineers to be able to do the work? Because you just can't say, hey, a building should do X, Y, and Z and then not have any service behind it. So we were thinking we need to produce the hardware at the last mile to be able to detect and diagnose those inefficiencies. But we just found a way to do it electronically via developing on top of public and private data sets. So build our own proprietary data set based upon multiple other data sets. So we're essentially a data hygiene company.

HEIDI: There you go. Good. So before I ask you kind of what you're eating during these pivots, if you could just talk a little bit about, you know, what a pivot like that looks like, right? I feel like a lot of startups, or at least a lot of the startups that I work with, they come in and what they really don't know is their customer, if that makes sense. And so they pivot to their customer appropriately, I think, or pivot their go-to-market strategy. So did you make the pivot from hardware to software because of customers?

KAMAL: So we're bootstrapped. The environment for pre-seed investment is really, really hard. Had we started this company a couple years earlier, I think we would have a lot more offers of angel and pre-seed. But traction trumps everything. So our mission was let's get to six digit ARR and then we'll entertain investment offers. How do you get traction? Well, you have to do dozens and dozens and dozens of interviews and you have to say, do I have the problem? Okay, we've got confirmation on the problem. Then you have to talk about, well, here's our solution. Is this interesting? What are the barriers? What's the FUD? And so we just kept on learning and getting an idea what customers are willing to trial, what they're willing to pay for, who's going to be first. We've had a lot of lenders that are like, we won't be your first or second customer, we'll be your eighth or ninth customer, so come back to us. So, you know, we've done around fifty interviews and we got to six digit recurring revenue and we've got a pipeline that we're pretty confident about converting. And so our lesson is bootstrap and then try to figure out a way to get in front of customers, get that feedback, because what your customers are telling you is what you could take to investors. And that's all that matters.

HEIDI: Could not agree more. Okay, so this is Founders Fridge. So as you're kind of making those calls, doing those customer interviews, can you just tell me a little bit about what your day is looking like in terms of fitting in food into that busy schedule?

KAMAL: So this is my—I approach it on a weekly basis. And the reason why I approach it on a weekly basis is because I love supporting local business and I love farmer's markets. So my dream week is orient yourself around those one to two days where there's a local farmer's market and get fresh ingredients, right? Whatever's fresh, whatever's seasonal, get it. I buy the stuff. And the thing is when you're buying real food, unprocessed food, you have to cook it. Otherwise, it goes bad. It doesn't just stay there for like three weeks, right? And so you force yourself to like, hey, I just bought these radishes and beets. I've never cooked with radishes and beets. What the heck am I going to do with this stuff? And so you investigate recipes, right? Because if you don't use it, you'll lose it, right? And then I top it off with whatever I need on the recipes I look up. I top it up with going to the grocery stores to complement and round out the recipes I look up. For me, YouTube is two things for me. It's food instructions and football. When I'm not working, that's what I spend my time on doing. So if you go to my X, I just talk about football. And if you go to my YouTube, it's all just recipes.

HEIDI: Amazing. I actually have a secret to tell you. So I am sitting right now in Troy, New York, which in the US has been voted the best farmer's market in America. I believe that's true. And I have to tell you, I think I'm the only person that struggles with the farmer's market in our downtown. So when I go to the farmer's market, I feel so overwhelmed. It's like the people are all there. They're like swarming. You know, there's so many people that just kind of come to the downtown, difficult to park. So I am a fan of any farmer's market that is not my local farmer's market and that is a very unpopular view. I have to say I can't even believe I'm admitting it on the podcast.

KAMAL: Wow, that's interesting. So you know, I'm in Vancouver now, but my wife is finishing med school. Our farmer's market, we didn't use it at all—we just walked. And so I'd have to carry like four or five bags from the farmer's market back home. So I consider that part of my workouts. Now that I'm in Vancouver, we're going to have to drive because we're not downtown. So we'll definitely drive. But for me, like, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a small business. And so when I go to a farmer's market, I make it a point to support small business. Because the big chains, they don't need any help. They're gonna get customers. But if you want to know your producer, you want to get to know the people that are growing the fruit, treating the animals and treating the produce and just develop those relationships. And then you just feel—see, my wife's finishing med school. So for me, I have a new outlook on food. Food is like a pharmacy. And you think about gut biome diversity, you're like, what am I putting in my body? And then now I go to the grocery store and I look at the label, and if I don't understand what the words are, I don't buy it. Because I'm like, I don't know what this natural flavor—what's a natural flavor? Like, no, no. I want to know what I'm putting in my body, right? And so I'm thinking about stuff that I never thought about before. Like, for example, salad dressing. I never buy salad dressing. You can make amazing salad dressings out of real ingredients and have it be really tasty. And you don't need to buy a huge bottle. You just make it small and make it fresh, right?

HEIDI: A hundred percent. Yeah, my wife loves the farmer's market. I will say, so I used to own a restaurant. I don't know if I told you that before this, but I owned and operated a restaurant for seven years. It was an oyster bar and it's on the farmer's market route. So what that means is that the farmer's market stands block the entrance to a restaurant instead of putting the... I feel like I'm such a nag, you know what I mean? I feel like I have like PTSD from the farmer's market, which is not fair and it's so wonderful.

KAMAL: You'll get over it.

HEIDI: I feel like I will. But I do feel like—like it's such an experience and what you're describing is what people love about it. So I get it. I will just—I will say in my defense, I go to other farmer's markets and I love them. It's just like the Troy one is so popular.

KAMAL: Yeah, you need to find the right one that's not as popular that works for you.

HEIDI: Yeah, exactly. So I'm wondering, do you have a specialty? Is there a dish that's like your specialty?

KAMAL: I would say I don't have a specialty. So I have two types of approaches. One is classic. So classic, I love just like a great steak with a fresh salad. You could eat that every week. Like, and you wouldn't get tired of it. But I also love exploring other things that I've never done before. It's just experimenting and just try new things and seeing how it goes. But when I'm really in a rush and I just don't have time and I want to eat healthy, it's a steak and salad. Because a steak you can prepare in five minutes if you just do it on a pan, do both sides, let it sit, you're done. And then a salad, like if you're just doing a salad, that only takes a few minutes too. Because you're chopping up stuff, you're making a dressing, and you're done.

HEIDI: Amazing. And are you marinating that steak? How do you like your steak?

KAMAL: I like it medium rare with a little bit of pink. And so for me, it's just Montreal steak spice. It's a Canadian thing. There you go. Get the right cut, get the right marbling, do the seasoning—Montreal steak spice is just like, just amazing. And do it on a cast iron, both sides, let it rest, and you're done.

HEIDI: What's in Montreal steak spice?

KAMAL: Oh gosh, it's like paprika, garlic, onion, pepper, a bunch of stuff. It's a blend. It's a Canadian blend for some reason.

HEIDI: I'm going to look into it. It's funny because I come from a, I was born and raised in Montreal, and so I feel like it's funny now that I know that that's a thing, I'm going to have to look into it. My parents, I don't think they use Montreal steak spice, but it's interesting. I was going to ask too, so like, what's it like cooking for two? Is it easy to do this? What's going on with that?

KAMAL: I do most of the cooking. And just because we have different schedules. But then like, it's an expression of love, right? Because my wife's in med school. I don't want her—she's already, her plate is full. If I could buy the ingredients, and I could cook it, and I know what's in it, and then I produce it, and then you just watch her face eat it, it's like, that's a high. That's like, yeah, that's an amazing feeling. And when it's tasty, when you have someone taste it and go, wow, that's good. That's why I do it, because it's fun.

HEIDI: Do you follow recipes?

KAMAL: So I use YouTube. And I just look up recipes and like, for example, I'm infatuated with Thai food at the moment. And so if I'm in a rush, I'll use a slow cooker if I'm cooking a protein, or you can just do the old fashioned way on the stove top and just do a veg. But like I've learned about fish sauce. I've learned about tamarind, although tamarind is heavily used in Indian food too. I've learned about galangal. Galangal is a unique type of ginger. Lemongrass. These are things I never would look at in a grocery store. A couple of months ago, I was like, you know what? We're going to go buy artichokes and leeks. I would never buy that stuff, right? But if you force yourself to buy it and you're like, okay, what the hell do I do with this stuff now? And leeks and artichokes, they're delicious, but you just got to figure out what to do with them. And YouTube is excellent because you have written recipes, which are helpful, but I want to watch the video and do it. It's more helpful for me.

HEIDI: A lot of people who I talk to find cooking very meditative. It's almost like what you're describing, though, is that it feels very exploratory to you, like you're learning new things. That is very cool.

KAMAL: My goal is to be able to cook expertly two to three dishes in different types of cuisine. So for example, Indonesian food, I want to be able to master rendang, which is voted one of the best dishes in the world. Nasi Goreng, Mi Goreng, different types of rice dishes. And I'm right now in Thai. So for me, Massaman, which again ranks up there with rendang as one of the best dishes in the world. Massaman curry is amazing. And then you got green curries and yellow curries. There's just so much out there in different culinary traditions that it's like, hey, what are you feeling—Thai? What are you feeling—Vietnamese? Like maybe I'll do Vietnam next, right? I don't know, we'll see. But to be able to master that and then you have a different appreciation when you go to a Thai or Vietnamese or Indonesian restaurant, right? You're like, I know what that is. I know the spices in there. I could do it. Not as well as you, but I'm pretty good.

HEIDI: What was the cooking culture like when you were growing up?

KAMAL: So more of a traditional household. My mom was a stay at home mom and she did all of the cooking. And it was like maybe sixty percent Indian food growing up and then forty percent Western food. Like we would have pizza, steak and hamburger. But interestingly, we never had—we've never had like a turkey dinner at Christmas or Thanksgiving. Like we just don't do that. Yeah, so as we got older we did bake to do that, but it was like no, we kind of like the other stuff better. So our holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving and all that sort of stuff, it's like a collection of different types of food. We'll have some Western stuff but then we'll have Indian stuff and then my sister married Singaporean so we'll have some Singaporean, Indonesian, Malaysian. So it's a mélange. It's a masala of different types of food. So we have really, really good haul. It's not your typical cranberry turkey, you know?

HEIDI: Right. That's cool. Do you live to eat or do you eat to live?

KAMAL: I live to learn and innovate. And for me, food is fuel. And food is creativity. It's innovation. And it's an expression of love. So when I cook, I cook with love because I want my wife to have the fuel so that she can study for her upcoming licensing exams and help people with better health from the inside out.

HEIDI: What's the next thing that you're going to cook?

KAMAL: What's the next thing I'm going to cook? I think I would love to do pho. Yes, absolutely. I think the whole concept of pho is fascinating for me because it's all in the broth. And like, hey, how do you actually make a really, really, really good broth? And if you're able to get that, then you're able to source really good noodles or make noodles. And then you get all the seasonal accompaniments. You're done, right?

HEIDI: Right. So if we looked in your fridge right now, what would be in it?

KAMAL: Eggs, vegetables. Some proteins. Not a lot of processed foods. Oh, there is ketchup. There is ketchup. There is some Dijon. Yeah, that's about it. There's ketchup, Dijon. That's the extent of processed foods.

HEIDI: Are you like a seltzer person? You said natural flavors before. Do you drink seltzer?

KAMAL: No.

HEIDI: No, not a seltzer person?

KAMAL: Water with electrolytes.

HEIDI: There you go. There you go. All right. Sounds good. Yeah. I think in my fridge right now, to be honest, it's so bad. I don't even know what's in my fridge right now. I'm like one of those people—it's bad because my wife loves to cook. She's very similar to you. She's like, I got to master these things. And, you know, so it was my birthday a couple of days ago and I love pie. So she made her first pie. It actually turned out fantastic. I have to tell you, it was like this apple pie. It was so good. And so I looked at it this morning. I was like, am I going to have a slice of that apple pie this morning? I resisted, you know, I resisted, but my instinct was to go for it.

KAMAL: So by the way, I recently, well, a couple of months ago, I made a chicken pot pie casserole. So one of the next things I want to do is I want to explore pies, savory and sweet. Because you could do like with pies, you could do like a quiche. Totally. You could do sweet pies. Like I've never tried to make a pie. I would love to be able to acquire that skill set because you do savory and sweet. There's so much you can do with that base skill.

HEIDI: Oh, a hundred percent. I know she's always putting things in phyllo dough and pie. So like she'll make the insides of like a chicken pot pie. And she'll say to me—we have these little skillets, you know, like little Lodge skillets. And she'll have the phyllo dough kind of out in the fridge. And she'll say, oh, you can just make yourself a pot pie, you know, anytime you want, this is how you do it. And I'm like, yeah, there's absolutely no chance I'm gonna make a pot pie. Like I'm gonna grab like some peanuts from the pantry. It's really bad. I really—I'm hopeful that this podcast actually gets me in a, you know, back in a cooking mindset. I think from owning a restaurant, I just got totally burnt out from food. And like, I think of it kind of like a business and I just couldn't possibly. And so I'm hopeful this podcast talking to people like you inspires me to get back into food.

KAMAL: See, the way I look at food, it's fuel. Fuel for my startup. Fuel for my creativity. Fuel for my workouts. Because like, food is a pharmacy. And if you have good fuel, if you have premium gas, then you're able to get more from your workouts, you'll be able to get more gains.

HEIDI: There you go. All right. So what's for dinner tonight?

KAMAL: Oh my God, I haven't even thought about it that far. I think I'm gonna make some fish and salad. So protein prepared one way, I'll maybe do cod. And then just like, I'll take avocado, I'll smash it up, put some olive oil in there, some lime, salt and pepper, a little bit of maple syrup, mix it all up and that's your salad dressing.

HEIDI: I love it. All right. We'll make sure to put links to you and your company in the show notes, but it was so wonderful to have you on. Thanks so much.

KAMAL: Thanks so much. It was also a pleasure.

HEIDI: Awesome.

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